New Season, New Discoveries

Here we are, already into the 2023 season and another run at the Minnie FLX. New year, new things to discover.

So one of the things I really wanted to see about was if a soft start would work in the Truma Aventa AC. In short… No! The Truma system is so low profile and form fitting that it’s really not possible to fit a soft start in the unit. So form fitting in fact that the foam base/surround is molded to exact specifications. Take that crappy boxy American A/C units that are noisy as hell!

While it wasn’t the outcome that I was hoping for, it is nice to actually see the inside of the unit and truly understand how efficient and well designed it is. It still is much more efficient and quite than the American counterparts, granted the Truma control panel is the stereotypical overly complex German engineered component but hey, it works.

So while a soft start isn’t an option it doesn’t take away from how much the Truma systems really rock. I honestly don’t know how I could go to another system, even though some American counterparts are trying to compete. There’s no way they’re this well made and designed. Period!

I will say that while the Truma is killing it, the Lippert made/owned components are something to definitely watch out for. Particularly the Schwintek Slides. I mean, they are really getting ripped apart for quality issues. Let’s just put it this way, from what I keep learning, Lippert and quality are not synonymous. Lippert from everything I read and hear from dealerships and owners is synonymous with anything but quality. Now don’t fault the original founders of the various companies that Lippert (see LCI) is gobbling up in order to have a monopoly in the RV industry. Many were quality businesses to begin with… until they sold out to a cost cutting bottom line focused quality be damned parent company. So in short, make sure to really run your unit through its paces before you sign on the line.

I’m hearing that the Schwintek slides fail in the range of 10-15 cycles. Now I don’t know how many the factories do plus the dealerships, but that isn’t much before failure. I know some dealerships are worried about burning out the units trying to weed out the bad ones but in the end, that should be Lippert’s job to do burn in testing… but that’s more for companies that actually care about quality and not saving 10 cents per unit.

Keeping in mind how subpar Lippert components are I really shouldn’t be too surprised that I’ve already had to replace one of the Lippert made remote stabilizer switches that died a year in. At least Amazon did have Lippert knock offs for less money and in a 2 pack so I now have a spare. When your’s dies, at least be aware that they are easy enough to replace if you are remotely handy with making new wire connections.

Still, we are loving our FLX and have new trips planned for this year and at least a few new vids to help you all out. Stay safe, stay healthy, and hope to see you out there.

SB

Season wrap up… and finding clarity.

The season is a wrap, the Minnie is now hibernating, and I finally have the whole picture on winterizing the FLX system… I think.

First things first, are we happy we went with the FLX package? Actually, with all the issues and bad press the RV industry justly deserves for putting out subpar units and having no clue about how it (FLX) would perform… yes. While we’ve had some major annoyances related to the FLX settings and complete lack of information from Winnebago, our unit has actually been pretty solid. The FLX package has proven to actually do a solid job boon docking, unless you’re running AC that is. If you need AC the system ain’t gonna cut it beyond a brief stint, period!

So as far as the FLX package goes we do recommend it but I will point out, the 5 day claim off grid is compete marketing BS if you even think of running the AC… or doing much as far as running the microwave (limited use is ideal) or other high wattage appliances (see Keurig). If you can live without the AC and minimize other big hitter usage, it most certainly can go for several days. We actually have made the switch to a coffee percolator when off grid to avoid the hit caused by the Keurig as an FYI.

Another thing to realize is what is actually required for winterization. Because winterizing the FLX is a bit more complicated as Winnebago seems to have left out one important fact. The storage requirements for the 68lb battery that is buried in the storage bay. The general winterization is super simple as it really is just removing some panels and running RV antifreeze through the system. The battery on the other hand is not so simple. In essence, depending on time and expected temperatures, the battery may or may not have to be removed for the winter. The following will take you to Lithionics support page. Scroll to storage procedure to download the pdf. Lithioncs support

In short, there are 2 important facts about the battery. First, it needs to be discharged and then recharged every 6 months in order to maintain optimum battery capacity and life. Secondly, if it’s going to be stored for longer than 3 months and below freezing for more than a month… that big ass sucker needs to be pulled out and stored inside. Oh, did Winnebago not pass that along to you either? Funny how Winnebago on their promo for the battery mentions storage conditions above freezing yet completely neglects to address below freezing requirements. The thing that really irks me is they mention ABOVE FREEZING. So it isn’t like they were not aware of the requirements or privy to the readily available information from Lithionics. They completely leave that point out and then not only make the battery a pain to remove but don’t even let the dealerships or owners know. Insert expletive towards Winnebago here… or how about Winnebago just put an insert in the owners package. Printing the pdf from Lithionics site must be too much to handle at HQ.

Still, we are happy with our FLX even though it has been a royal pain in the ass to chase down, dig up, and pester the hell out of everyone associated with the package to fully grasp the quirks of this vs a traditional rig. Winnebago did virtually nothing to fully understand the needs of the system much less pass along the info to their dealers and the FLX owners. Hence, batteries shutting down in the southwest because they are overheating and northern units needing to have their batteries pulled in the cold. Both situations are big deals. Especially given the batteries are approximately $4500 a pop.

So, if you are considering the FLX vs a traditional setup, it really comes down to your individual needs and realistic expectations out of either setup. To put the premium price tag on the FLX into perspective, the inverter runs about $1500 plus $4500 for the battery. So just those 2 things add 6k to the price without adding the Truma appliances and bigger solar. I will point out that the Truma AC does work off of 110 without tripping the breaker as well. Pretty efficient stuff folks.

As this year has come to a close, I hope my tenacious desire to understand this system has helped you in your decision. Typically, I’m not the early adopter type of person but the FLX package really does kick ass, once everything is set correctly and you fully know what you’re getting.

Safe travels,

SB

Where’s the Testing and QC?

While Winnebago is rather synonymous with quality… they’re missing the mark on some things none the less.

First, the FLX is having some over heating issues that are requiring some interesting mods to units down in the Deep South. Keep in mind, the Lithionics battery has an operating range up to 131 degrees Fahrenheit and will shutdown at 179 degrees. So if that puppy is reaching those temps… it’s pretty warm. So as it stands, Winnebago is having dealers place vents in the storage doors, the battery box, and a fan in said battery box to mitigate over heating and BMS shutdowns. This begs the question, did they not vet the system in the field in realistic conditions? We’ll see what Winnebago’s reaction is going forward? Design tweaks to future runs? Extended warranty for existing units already in the field that encounter this issue… especially beyond the 3 year warranty? Time will tell.

On to the QC issue I allude to. There seems to be an issue that these FLX units are rolling out of the factory and NO ONE is checking the system settings. I had others reach out to me prior to my inquiring about said settings and have since discovered that both the Xantrex and GoPower controllers were indeed set to default settings. These settings have a pretty big impact on how the battery charges and such. I’ve also had a dealer tech point out that they are seeing the units they get in set incorrectly so it isn’t isolated by any means. I checked the GoPower solar battery settings on 4 units at my dealer and 3 were set to GEL and 1 was set to USER. So clearly Winnebago is really dropping the ball.

So basically, our previous runs and tests aren’t that accurate as the inverter and solar were not charging the battery as they should have been. Good thing we’re getting ready to run through another 4 night run boon docking to see the impact the changes will have… and yes, we’ll have a generator on hand (always).

Here’s hoping the system is that much better with the setting corrections….

To be cont.

Xantrex settings below:

The GoPower Solar Solar Charger setting should have the battery type set to Lithium. Default is GEL. If your settings are incorrect I suggest reaching out to Winnebago on how to update the systems correctly.

Boondocking and Bikes

Well, the first legit test of the system is in the books. So how did the Minnie do? Actually, pretty good. Albeit, we didn’t need AC which is a huge benefit.

So when we rolled out on day 1 before 6am we were at 99% and after setting up, running the little stick vacuum (where is all this sawdust still coming from?), cooking dinner, etc we dropped to 73%. ‘Twas a sunny day.

Day 2 we were running the microwave for breakfast and dinner, the Keurig, the standard utilities except AC, and a few other minor draws. After the solar did its job, we bounced back to 80%. Another sunny day.

Day 3 was a mix of sun and clouds and after dropping to 70% the previous night we still bounced back to 77%. The draws were still relatively the same except we ate dinner out, so no nuking any dinner sides this round. Though I did charge up some camera batteries before cutting out.

However, while we were out at dinner I did fire up the little 1800 watt generator to top off the battery. We knew we would be facing rain the next couple of days and we didn’t want to be caught out. Better to be prepared than regretting not running the generator when we could.

Our forth day was wet. Not quite build an ark wet but it was a lot of mixed wet conditions. So solar didn’t have the chance to even offset the draw from just the fridge. That fridge is the biggest steady draw on the system by the way.

The next morning was all about packing up and setting out for home. I believe the battery was still showing 68ish percent while we were still in transit. So all in all, pretty good.

So would I recommend the FLX package? That depends, I’d be curious to see how much the full Truma package runs just on its own sans the solar/lithium/converter upgrades. The Truma systems really are stellar. If cost is a consideration or if you always plan on being connected at campgrounds, it really isn’t a benefit. For mixed use and/or for upgraded components that are quick, efficient, and quieter than it really is the way to go.

To be cont.

The first real test

First real test of our home away from home

Test Run Take 2

Sooooo, we were a little concerned over some battery issues and we wanted to see just how capable the Minnie is water wise. I’m talking water and waste wise while off grid as it were. So trial run take 2.

The biggest thing is we believe we have finally figured out the battery issues, even while connected. Turns out not all things are as advertised if you will. The campground we’ve been trying out, which friends happen to stay at, has negligible electric. Negligible as in we actually draw more with hardly anything running than what they provide. I would see a 6-7 amp draw on the system with 2 or less amps coming from our “30 amp” hookup. Hence our battery drain while hooked up. Note: The battery will make up for any deficiency.

So, when we got back home I figured I’d see what my little inexpensive (relatively speaking) generator would do if I connected to it. DANG! My little 1800 peak watt generator pushed more juice running at 67% capacity than the campground. In 30 minutes it pushed nearly 15% back into the battery. I’m talking the difference of 80+ amps vs 2 or less. Holy frijoles! At least we have some comfort and peace of mind now regarding the battery.

I had spoken with a Lithionics rep since my last post and he did sort out a lot of questions. What questions you ask? Well, I covered some of it previously but basically, the whole system is solid if you realize the capabilities of it.

First off, the solar can only push about a third of the total capacity of the battery back into it. That’s with no draws on the system mind you. Secondly, no matter how many amps the Xantrex can push to the battery (150), the battery will only allow 100 amps.

As far as the water goes. If used sparingly it can easily make it several days. Granted, you will either be showering elsewhere, skipping showers, or if just one person is using it the grey tank can hold up. Our black tank was never an issue as we take care of the more “serious” business elsewhere. Fresh water was surprisingly good, even after 4 showers over two days. Still, we do plan on bringing a 7 gallon portable water jug/tank when we boondock to have more available, as well as a portable pooper mover if need be.

As a bonus note, use caution when using the convection part of the microwave. I found out that the venting on it REALLY heats up the ceiling above it. I mean as in you can’t touch it hot. I am going to sort out some heat shielding option to rectify that issue. The convection piece did a nice job though. I just need to sort out how to use it without potentially torching the roof. Makes one wonder if manufacturers even bother to try these things out before final implementation. Sheesh.

(Side note: I reached out to Winnebago about the ceiling temp from that convection temp and they claim it’s rated to 400°. They didn’t specify for how long and they tested it by heating one to 425° and cooking for 15 minutes to get a temp off the ceiling. According to their engineers it was within “acceptable” limits. So there is Winnebago’s stance on it.)

In less than 2 weeks the real test begins. 4 nights with no hookups! Though we will be utilizing some shower houses to reduce the load on the Winnie!

To be continued…

The Initial Test!

Kung Fu Chicken’s adventures begin and with some drama to boot.

Well, it’s been a mixed bag starting our RV journey with the FLX. It hasn’t been bad but like all new things, and new tech, there are learning curves and bugs to work out.

First off, we love the Micro Minnie FLX. It’s compact but very usable for our needs. Yes, it has some warts that need to be removed but all in all she’s a great little camper and the Truma systems seem to do great… once you know how they want to be handled.

Our struggles, if you want to call them that, are for the most part minor to potentially major annoyances. The minor ones are things you’d find in any new camper. Such as your bare foot finding more construction debris that has dislodged while the trailer was bouncing down potholed and piss poorly patched Midwest roads. At least it was nothing needing a tetanus shot.

The Truma AquaGo water heater is freaking awesome if not quirky. Not quirky as in that eccentric friend who has their own style and doesn’t care. Quirky as in you need to be careful how you talk to it or you're going to upset it. It can be moody if you don’t fire it up in the right way but as I found out, as long as there is gas and water actually going to the unit, just go outside and cycle the power to calm it down. Basically just give it a timeout vs slapping the sh$t out of it. Showering with it is great and it gives you hot water fast in the Comfort mode. I didn’t push it because I didn’t want to burn through propane but I’m sure you could essentially do a normal shower with this thing vs a Navy shower. 

My biggest concern is more around how Winnebago REALLY tested their claim of “up to 5 days” off grid. Clearly it isn’t what I would consider real world testing as in under 24 hours of disconnecting we were hooking back up to shore power to bring the battery back up. Granted we did fire up the AC at 87% and ran the sucker for almost 9 hours. Following that we used our small Keurig to brew up a couple of coffees before using the microwave for 4 minutes. You could actually see the expected remaining charge drop to an estimated 18 minutes before the microwave stopped. And yes, I know running the AC for 9 hours on battery power is a LOT but if you’re in some seriously warm weather it definitely factors in to a comfortable nights sleep. As for those 9 hours, it wasn’t even with the compressor on that much once it was cooled down. The fan only draws about 130 watts vs close to 900 with the compressor running. Once I finally pulled the pin and hooked up electrical we were on the verge of 10% left in the battery and solar wasn’t doing much to recharge it fast enough for our comfort. Especially facing another 80 degree day.

The other thing that I will be sorting out post haste is the disconnect between the Lithionics’ battery and the Xantrex/GO Power battery meters (*See the follow up below). I’m not talking about a few percentage points. I’m talking as in near empty vs 100% readings. Yep, you read that right. If I didn’t have the Lithionics’ app to check, we would have thought we were at full charge! That is a serious disconnect between the different components.

I know some of these quirks will be worked out in time but if we find that running the AC for more than a few hours a day will be more than the system can handle and maintain a usable charge for a few days, I’m going to be more than ticked off. Clearly I’m going to have to make sure we have a generator, something we were hoping to avoid as much as possible, if we even THINK of boon docking. The thing is, if you don’t use the AC, Microwave, or any other big hitters this thing could go on for a loooong time powering the other appliances with no issue. 

To be continued… but here’s a little info for ya

Wattage hits according to the Xantrex app.

Appliance/ wattage hit

AC/ 110-150 fan only

1000 (or less) w/compressor

Microwave/ 1550

Kuerig/ 1400 peak (Only during the heating cycle, which is short)

TV/ 20-30

So in essence, an 1800 peak watt generator “could” be used to help offset big battery hits if you use it while running the big 3… one at a time mind you. I still need to sort out my overload when I tested it with the AC running the second time. You do feel the compressor kick in when you’re in the Minnie so if it has a really hard wattage hit when it cycles it may be too much for 1800 watts to consistently handle. I guess I could always fire the 5000 watt generator up and really piss off the neighbors if I’m too warm.

*I haven’t heard from Lithionic’s as of this posting but I did have a great discussion with Xantrex who was a great help. To keep it as simple as possible, because this is a lithium battery with completely different characteristics from a typical battery, the Xantrex and GoPower solar can not give an accurate reading on battery charge. So in short, the battery status display on the Xantrex control panel is worthless. You have to monitor the battery status with the Lithionic’s app or you will really be rueing the day.

Now please, don’t consider this a dig or a failure on Xantrex and GoPower. It is the nature of the best with Lithium batteries vs the more common lead acid/AGM style batteries everyone is used to. Lithium batteries have their own battery management system that a “normal” system can not accurately read.

As far as the Truma systems go, we LOVE them. I mean as in “why the hell hasn’t the RV market in the US brought this to their builds before now?” kind of love. All around their systems absolutely rock, especially the Truma AquaGo. 

Kung Fu Chicken’s Adventures

April 2, 2022

I’m sure most would think this would be a blog about photography, motorcycles, or something remotely connected. Well, kinda sorta. It is those things that led us to this point. That point being RV owners.

As we were in the process of deciding what RV we wanted to live and work out of at Motorcycle races and vacations, we landed on the brand spanking new Winnebago Micro Minnie FLX. A new “cutting edge” travel trailer that can be self sufficient for up to a claimed 5 days. The down side being that it’s so new that the info about said energy efficient trailer is rather limited. So it truly is more learn as you go vs go to YouTube or Google and see what others have to say.

So, wanting to help out those who have or are considering buying the FLX and being as I’m such a wonderful person (some may disagree but hey, this is my blog), I wanted to put our learnings out there for others to glean from. So I will post our trials and errors in addition to what we have in the way of hard info. Fortunately for us, our dealer (http://www.funtimecampers.com) has done a great job reaching out to Winnebago to get us as much info as possible. I’m a technical person so I want technical info so I can properly troubleshoot issues and better understand what I’m working with.

With that being said, here’s the info I have so far and the links to more info from the various component/systyem manufacturers. Granted, this came from Winnebago and then to me in Feb of 2022 so it’s only accurate as of that time… and with all the sourcing issues?

Hope it helps,

SpeedBump

FLX Component Summary

Makes/Models

Battery: Lithionics GTX12V320A

Inverter: Xantrex XC3000 Pro

Solar Panel: GoPower GP-PV-190M

Solar Charge Controller: GoPower GP-RVC-MPPT-30

Water Heater: Truma AquaGo Comfort

Furnace: Truma VarioHeat Comfort

Air Conditioner: Truma Aventa Eco

Shower: AquaView ShowerMiser

Electrical Specs

Battery

Nominal Capacity: 320 A

Nominal Voltage: 12.8 Volts

Composition: LiFePO4 (Lithium Iron Phosphate)

Inverter

Output Frequency: 60 Hz

Output Voltage: 120 VAC

Output Power Limit: 3000 Watts

Float Charge Voltage: 13.4 Volts

Absorption Charge Voltage: 14.4 Volts

Charge Current: 150 Amps

AC Input Breaker: 30 Amps

Solar Panel

Rated DC Voltage: 20.4 Volts

Output Power: 190 Watts/EA

Panel Type: Monocrystalline

Solar Charge Controller

Charge Type: MPPT

Charge Current: 30 Amps

Key Features

Battery

UL1973 listed battery when using DC Circuit Breaker

Safest battery on the market, can be stored in residential spaces

Internal Battery Management System and Automatic Heat Pad

Built in NeverDie feature shuts down the battery @10% SOC to prevent failure

Bluetooth app enabled

Inverter

Continuous Pure Sine Wave power

Built in Automatic Transfer Switch for bypassing AC to Inverted power

Bluetooth app enabled

Solar Charge Controller

Built in electronic fault, self-detecting features using LED indicator to display faults

Current-limited charge and temperature sensors to protect the battery when charging

Bluetooth app enabled

Surge Protection up to 6000W for 5 seconds

Water Heater

High Efficiency, LP-only

On-demand with .35gal temperature stabilizing tank

Integrated into CP Plus display panel

Furnace

High Efficiency, LP only

Temperature sensor controlled

Integrated into CP Plus display panel

Air Conditioner

High Efficiency, 110V only

Direct dump system but very quiet on all fan modes

Integrated into CP Plus display panel

Includes remote control

Showermiser

Saves water by cycling into fresh tank

Color changing tube as temperature indicator

FAQ

Q: Can I change my battery out for a standard car battery?

A: No, this system is designed and setup for a LiFePO4 lithium battery and changing to any other type of battery could damage your unit.

Q: Why can’t I adjust all my inverter’s charge settings?

A: Certain settings have been locked by Winnebago to ensure customers don’t accidently make a change that could damage their unit. If you need to make a setting change that has been locked, then please contact Xantrex customer service.

Q: Why isn’t my inverter working when I press the ON button on the remote panel?

A: Sometimes the communication between the inverter and the remote gets broken. To fix it, press the power button on the inverter that is next to the display screen and make sure it is in the ON position.

Q: Why does the inverter beep when going from shore power to inverted power?

A: The inverter has an audible alarm that notifies the consumer that there are loads connected and drawing power from the unit.

Q: Will my battery charge from the 7-way while driving?

A: No, the 7-way will provide auxiliary power to the unit to power clearance lights, but it does not charge the battery. Lithium batteries cannot accept the charge coming from a standard tow vehicle battery, but your unit’s battery will charge from the solar panels while in transit.

Lithionic’s Info- A source for great info on the Lithionic’s battery. The FAQ’s & Tech Documents are a great source of info.

https://lithionicsbattery.com/support/

XANTREX- For all things Inverter

https://www.xantrex.com/documents/Inverter-Chargers/Freedom%20XC/20200415_FREEDOMXCPRO_Datasheet.pdf

GP Solar Power Controller- Making sense of solar

https://support.gpelectric.com/kb/section/58/

https://support.gpelectric.com/kb/article/395-gprvcr-quick-start-guide/

Truma- No one likes it too hot or too cold

http://trumanorthamericauqe5ebmeur.devcloud.acquia-sites.com/sites/default/files/inline-files/truma-watersystems-aquago-installation-operating-us-en.pdf

http://truma.net/air-conditioning-systems/truma-aventa-eco

http://truma.net/heating-systems/truma-varioheat-comfort